GM doesn't recommend C7 to be waxed?

[Z06Seal]

Corvetteforum member saw this on the manual and thought it was funny... I thought I share...

 

I have no idea why they would put such a note on the manual. It actually contradicts itself couple paragraphs later lol...

 

 

Finish Care Application of aftermarket clearcoat sealant/wax materials is not recommended. If painted surfaces are damaged, see your dealer to have the damage assessed and repaired. Foreign materials such as calcium chloride and other salts, ice melting agents, road oil and tar, tree sap, bird droppings, chemicals from industrial chimneys, etc., can damage the vehicle's finish if they remain on painted surfaces. Wash the vehicle as soon as possible. If necessary, use non-abrasive cleaners that are marked safe for painted surfaces to remove foreign matter. Occasional hand waxing or mild polishing should be done to remove residue from the paint finish. See your dealer for approved cleaning products.

 

Just though it was interesting lol

[ledger64]

wow...I never thought my sarcastic remark about Orange Peel would get this going....  but its all great info and truly highlights how difficult it is to remove OP and how thin factory paint is. 

 

Most people don't even notice it but then again many people don't even notice swirl marks. until your looking for it you don't really see it

[TheBurninator]

Adding that to my notebook of detailing information.

 

VERY useful info to keep on hand Dylan. Also a reminder that I should go buy a paint gauge.

[Ricky Bobby]

Adding that to my notebook of detailing information.

 

VERY useful info to keep on hand Dylan. Also a reminder that I should go buy a paint gauge.

 

A man that knows his paint thickness is a true man.

[Z06Seal]

Here's a perfect example of what Dylan is talking about, as well as the insane cost of labor to achieve such a result:

 

 

WOW!!! SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!!!!!!

 

that's probably a few thousand dollar job. between 2K and 5K with probably 40+ hours work

 

If I had the money and I was that anal, I'd do it. too bad I'm ok with some orange peel lol

[Z06Seal]

To put something into perspective for everyone:

 

Your factory paint has a total coating thickness (TCT) of around 5-7 mils. Thats the primer, base, and clear total.

The breakdown is usually something like:

• 2 mils primer
• 1-2 mils of base coat
• 2-3 mils of clear coat

Assume you got a really generously painted car the high side on all those you have 175µ:

• 50µ of primer
• 50µ of base
• 75µ of clear

If you assume the low end, a car painted on Friday by a lazy robot you get 125µ:

• 50µ of primer
• 25µ of base
• 50µ of clear

To put that into perspective a sheet of common copy paper is 100µ thick. So ALL of the coating from primer to clear on your car is just barely thicker than a sheet of paper. The clear is about half the thickness of a sheet of paper. Crazy thin! You have VERY little to work with in terms of aggressive removal (sanding) from the factory paint job... I strongly advise against anyone sanding OEM clear simply b/c it isn't very thick to begin with.

 

And b/c I know the question will be asked "HOW MANY TIMES CAN YOU POLISH YOUR CAR?"

 

On average I've tested 4-5µ of material removal doing correcting polish + orange microfiber on the Flex at high speed and aggressive work followed by a pass of finishing polish and a white foam pad.

 

Most swirl marks and common defects are going to be between 4-6µ deep.

 

That's actually very good info. Thank you for that. I never thought of paint correcting too many times, but i guess that's a possibility lol. 

[Z06Seal]

wow...I never thought my sarcastic remark about Orange Peel would get this going....  but its all great info and truly highlights how difficult it is to remove OP and how thin factory paint is. 

 

Most people don't even notice it but then again many people don't even notice swirl marks. until your looking for it you don't really see it

 

You made a good and funny point though... I've heard of that about how thin it is. I never noticed it until it was mentioned on the corvette forums. Then I started seeing it. I never looked at m Volt for swirl marks and since I'm back on here, I looked today and noticed it had some from washes over the year. it's always noticed when someone says something lol

[PT3]

Negative. Having been up close and personal with cars at $1m+ including Ferrari's, Bentleys, and a Bugatti or 2 not even they are immune from orange peel. No factory finish that I'm aware of comes free of orange peel. Its not a quality issue, its not a money issue, its a process issue. Not long ago had my hands on a RR Phantom Drop Head - had just as much, if not more orange peel than my factory GM paint jobs did. While a bespoke car may be painted by a person instead of a robot it doesn't necessarily eliminate orange peel. See below for why.

 

 

 

Like the other guys explained - it looks like the outside of an orange. Not rough, but bumpy/lumpy up close. The picture below was of the door on my 06 TBSS after a detail. The reflection looks fantasic right? Look at things in the reflection that should be straight lines, like the frame of the garage door. That ripple effect is the texture of the paint aka orange peel:

 

 

So what is orange peel? Its pretty much what paint looks like when its sprayed on and not sanded down to level it. Really, the only way to correct orange peel is to sand the finish flat. There are newer pad technologies like denim that level orange peel as well.

All factory, and even bespoke vehicles are going to be sprayed either by a robot or a person, either way the end result is orange peel to one degree or another. I don't care if its a Kia or a Rolls Royce, its going to have some degree of orange peel to it.

 

The reason its not fixed at a factory level is cost. Not only would the cars take significantly more paint to enable someone to sand and buff them, the time (literally days of labor to do it correctly) would add so much cost that even something as common as a mustang or a camaro would likely cost around $10-20k more, mostly in labor. Would you pay that much more? Not likely - and OEMs recognize that. The percentage of the population that notice orange peel is small. Its not a process that can be automated, and its not one that can be rushed.

I have a few friends in the paint business back in California that do nothing but high end aftermarket paint for hot rods, customs, and show cars. One of the STARTS at $50,000 for his work and it takes 8-12 weeks on average. Not only are the cars skim coated and blocked, but the primer is sprayed on heavy, then blocked. The base coat or coats are sprayed heavy, multiple times, then blocked. The last stage (clear coat) is sprayed heavy as well, sanded smooth, then meticulously buffed to perfection.

His work comes out glass smooth, not a single bit of orange peel anywhere, and his paint jobs have been on cars that have won the AMBR, in the running for the Riddler, and regularly recognized as some of the finest paint jobs... but obviously all that material and skilled labor comes at a substantial cost.

 

Long story short - if you find yourself being annoyed by the factory orange peel on your car take a look at 99.99999999999% of the cars around you on the road. Fact is they all have it.

Well then so TECHNICALLY it IS a money thing...at least to SOME degree. Lol. I just would have thought/assumed a car costing 7-figures would have a process (correct process = $) applied at or near a concourse level of refinement. Man...$1m doesn't buy what it used to!! Lol

 

GREAT info DVK!

[PT3]

A man that knows his paint thickness is a true man.

LOL! Love it.

[Mark L]

WOW!!! SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!!!!!!

 

that's probably a few thousand dollar job. between 2K and 5K with probably 40+ hours work

 

If I had the money and I was that anal, I'd do it. too bad I'm ok with some orange peel lol

 

I believe that guy said it was between $8-10K for that BMW from start to finish. 

[Z06Seal]

I believe that guy said it was between $8-10K for that BMW from start to finish. 

 

Yeah I just read that. Well take my money, but I don't have that. and i'm not putting that on a card LOL

[Big O]

Technically wouldn't you still have orange peel in the paint?  Correcting the clear will visually eliminate the paint orange as well or is it still noticeable?

[Team Adam's]

You can only see orange peel in the top coat.

[JLKoupe]

Great info, Dylan!  My husband has been working on a stubborn spot on the hood of his roadster but after reading this, he's decided to be more cautious in his approach.  Just like you've always advised - start with the lightest correction that you think you can do and work backwards as needed.  Thanks, Doc!