GM doesn't recommend C7 to be waxed?

[Z06Seal]

Corvetteforum member saw this on the manual and thought it was funny... I thought I share...

 

I have no idea why they would put such a note on the manual. It actually contradicts itself couple paragraphs later lol...

 

 

Finish Care Application of aftermarket clearcoat sealant/wax materials is not recommended. If painted surfaces are damaged, see your dealer to have the damage assessed and repaired. Foreign materials such as calcium chloride and other salts, ice melting agents, road oil and tar, tree sap, bird droppings, chemicals from industrial chimneys, etc., can damage the vehicle's finish if they remain on painted surfaces. Wash the vehicle as soon as possible. If necessary, use non-abrasive cleaners that are marked safe for painted surfaces to remove foreign matter. Occasional hand waxing or mild polishing should be done to remove residue from the paint finish. See your dealer for approved cleaning products.

 

Just though it was interesting lol

[Ricky Bobby]

They are just trying to sell products from the dealership is all.  "See your dealer for approved cleaning products"

[Rich]

Considering that Adam's is the "official car care product of Corvette and Camaro", I wonder how the boss feels about that.  

[Team Adam's]

This is not unique to Corvette, or GM - There was a Toyota manual floating around years back that said you should "apply a coat of polish for protection" and recommended pure silicone for conditioning exterior trim among other things.

 

Keep in mind the source - these are people who build cars, send them out the door, never to see them again. They're not exactly at the forefront of surface care and protection as evidenced by the quality of paint finishes at delivery.

[TheBurninator]

This is like companies saying transmission fluid is a lifetime fluid and doesn't need to be changed, or timing chains are lifetime too.

[ledger64]

anything in there on how to fix factory orange peel?

[Mark L]

anything in there on how to fix factory orange peel?

 

Only option is to colorsand, but with factory clear coats being so thing, I wouldn't. 

[Ricky Bobby]

anything in there on how to fix factory orange peel?

 

Dont buy a car/truck thats painted on a Friday.

[Team Adam's]

Dont buy a car/truck thats painted on a Friday.

 

Don't buy a factory vehicle period, actually. They've all got orange peel.

[ledger64]

Don't buy a factory vehicle period, actually. They've all got orange peel.

 

That is true!

 

Mark,  BTW thats a nice GMC you got there!

Edited February 18, 2015 by ledger64

[Ricky Bobby]

Soooooo true nowadays lol

[PT3]

Don't buy a factory vehicle period, actually. They've all got orange peel.

Even the high-end finishes that you get from BMW have it. Even on the $10k optional paint called Pure Metal Silver.

 

IMO... You have to spend BIG money to get a 'non-peeled' finish from the factory. (i.e - full bespoke Bentley, Bugatti, etc...)

[Fierce5]

Can someone explain what's orange peel?

[Rich]

Ever notice how when you look at an oranges skin it looks sort of bumpy?  Sometimes you'll look at car paint in a certain light and it looks the same.  That's called "orange peel".  Kind of cellulite on cars.

Hard to correct.

[Mark L]

That is true!

 

Mark,  BTW thats a nice GMC you got there!

 

 

Thank you

[Z06Seal]

I've been so obsessed with OP that I look for it all the time. I must say just about every car I've looked at has it lol.

[Ricky Bobby]

Even the high-end finishes that you get from BMW have it. Even on the $10k optional paint called Pure Metal Silver.

 

IMO... You have to spend BIG money to get a 'non-peeled' finish from the factory. (i.e - full bespoke Bentley, Bugatti, etc...)

 

If I spent the money on European delivery and got over there for a nice orange peeled finish I'd be pissed at ze Germans.

[Team Adam's]

Even the high-end finishes that you get from BMW have it. Even on the $10k optional paint called Pure Metal Silver.

 

IMO... You have to spend BIG money to get a 'non-peeled' finish from the factory. (i.e - full bespoke Bentley, Bugatti, etc...)

 

Negative. Having been up close and personal with cars at $1m+ including Ferrari's, Bentleys, and a Bugatti or 2 not even they are immune from orange peel. No factory finish that I'm aware of comes free of orange peel. Its not a quality issue, its not a money issue, its a process issue. Not long ago had my hands on a RR Phantom Drop Head - had just as much, if not more orange peel than my factory GM paint jobs did. While a bespoke car may be painted by a person instead of a robot it doesn't necessarily eliminate orange peel. See below for why.

 

Can someone explain what's orange peel?

 

Like the other guys explained - it looks like the outside of an orange. Not rough, but bumpy/lumpy up close. The picture below was of the door on my 06 TBSS after a detail. The reflection looks fantasic right? Look at things in the reflection that should be straight lines, like the frame of the garage door. That ripple effect is the texture of the paint aka orange peel:

 

 

So what is orange peel? Its pretty much what paint looks like when its sprayed on and not sanded down to level it. Really, the only way to correct orange peel is to sand the finish flat. There are newer pad technologies like denim that level orange peel as well.

 

All factory, and even bespoke vehicles are going to be sprayed either by a robot or a person, either way the end result is orange peel to one degree or another. I don't care if its a Kia or a Rolls Royce, its going to have some degree of orange peel to it.

 

The reason its not fixed at a factory level is cost. Not only would the cars take significantly more paint to enable someone to sand and buff them, the time (literally days of labor to do it correctly) would add so much cost that even something as common as a mustang or a camaro would likely cost around $10-20k more, mostly in labor. Would you pay that much more? Not likely - and OEMs recognize that. The percentage of the population that notice orange peel is small. Its not a process that can be automated, and its not one that can be rushed.

 

I have a few friends in the paint business back in California that do nothing but high end aftermarket paint for hot rods, customs, and show cars. One of the STARTS at $50,000 for his work and it takes 8-12 weeks on average. Not only are the cars skim coated and blocked, but the primer is sprayed on heavy, then blocked. The base coat or coats are sprayed heavy, multiple times, then blocked. The last stage (clear coat) is sprayed heavy as well, sanded smooth, then meticulously buffed to perfection.

 

His work comes out glass smooth, not a single bit of orange peel anywhere, and his paint jobs have been on cars that have won the AMBR, in the running for the Riddler, and regularly recognized as some of the finest paint jobs... but obviously all that material and skilled labor comes at a substantial cost.

 

Long story short - if you find yourself being annoyed by the factory orange peel on your car take a look at 99.99999999999% of the cars around you on the road. Fact is they all have it.

[Ricky Bobby]

^^^Dropping knowledge!

 

A purely concours paint job costs big $$$$$ and the OEM's aren't raising their vehicle prices so you won't see it happening anytime soon.

[Mark L]

Here's a perfect example of what Dylan is talking about, as well as the insane cost of labor to achieve such a result:

 

[Team Adam's]

Great video. Theres also the fact of how little clear you have to work with on a factory finish to begin with... sanding it is a risky proposition down the line if you intend to keep (and regularly correct) the finish.

[Mark L]

Great video. Theres also the fact of how little clear you have to work with on a factory finish to begin with... sanding it is a risky proposition down the line if you intend to keep (and regularly correct) the finish.

 

 

In the comments, he says it took 200 man hours. Figure at least $40/hr and you're already at $8K for a job like that.

 

 

FWIW, I tried colorsanding my old 2004 Tahoe, did a test panel on the rear inside hatch, a 3"x3" area out of sight, well it burned through the clear and base in no time. That ended my attempt at colorsanding a factory GM vehicle

Edited February 19, 2015 by Mark L

[Team Adam's]

TCT on the inside panels is usually 50% of what it is on the outward... so makes sense you saw the panel pretty quick then.

[Team Adam's]

To put something into perspective for everyone:

 

Your factory paint has a total coating thickness (TCT) of around 5-7 mils. Thats the primer, base, and clear total.

The breakdown is usually something like:

• 2 mils primer
• 1-2 mils of base coat
• 2-3 mils of clear coat

Assume you got a really generously painted car the high side on all those you have 175µ:

• 50µ of primer
• 50µ of base
• 75µ of clear

If you assume the low end, a car painted on Friday by a lazy robot you get 125µ:

• 50µ of primer
• 25µ of base
• 50µ of clear

To put that into perspective a sheet of common copy paper is 100µ thick. So ALL of the coating from primer to clear on your car is just barely thicker than a sheet of paper. The clear is about half the thickness of a sheet of paper. Crazy thin! You have VERY little to work with in terms of aggressive removal (sanding) from the factory paint job... I strongly advise against anyone sanding OEM clear simply b/c it isn't very thick to begin with.

 

And b/c I know the question will be asked "HOW MANY TIMES CAN YOU POLISH YOUR CAR?"

 

On average I've tested 4-5µ of material removal doing correcting polish + orange microfiber on the Flex at high speed and aggressive work followed by a pass of finishing polish and a white foam pad.

 

Most swirl marks and common defects are going to be between 4-6µ deep.

[SYMAWD]

On the BMW video, they post links to their Facebook with before and after paint readings.  The whole process removed 6-8 microns.

[Ricky Bobby]

Thank you for clarifying D, as I thought it would be asked as well.

 

Basically people, don't be making 5 passes per year with correcting polish trying to get 100% perfection LOL