PC vs Flex - New to polishing questions

[Performance Auto Detailing]

First off sorry for the lengthy post,

 

I'm fairly new to Adams - only 2 purchases under my belt, one of which was all the exterior and interior cleaning basics, and the second being a couple gallon refills once I knew for sure how great Adams was. I have been wanting to get into polishing but don't really know where to start and what to get.

 

I've never used a polisher before, so I am under the impression I should get the Porter Cable because I'm new, but all I have been hearing about is how good the Flex is. Putting the price of the machines aside, which would be better for me? Would the flex be problematic for me because I've never used a polisher before?

 

I've watched all the Adam's videos for polishing but still don't fully understand how to go about it. The first two cars I will be polishing are a Silver 2006 Acura RL and a 2010 Mercedes E350. I know the Mercedes will probably only need the Swirl and Haze Remover/Fine Machine Polish Steps, but I'm thinking the Acura will also need the Severe Swirl Remover.

 

One of my questions is do I only work one panel at a time? Do I go through each polishing step on a single panel and then move to a new panel? Or do I use one polishing step on the whole car - then proceed to the next step on the rest of the car. This is probably a dumb question but I have no experience.

 

After the polishing I know I need to protect it. I was planning on using Brilliant Glaze to add some shine and then the Americana for protection. I've been seeing people talking about Machine Super Sealant also. Is it necessary for me to use a sealant in addition to Americana? And if so, that is applied directly after the polishing and IPA wipe down? Also if someone could explain how to do an IPA wipe down that would be great.

 

Oh I forgot about claying too, but that seems pretty simple and straight forward - Approximately how long does the Clay Bar from Adams last? Assuming the cars that I'll be using it on aren't too contaminated.

 

That's everything I can think of at the moment, any help you guys can provide would be great! I appreciate it.

[BKazzle]

I'm not new to polishing, but the first time I used the flex, I was fine with it. Also, I showed my dad how to use it and he was fine with it as well. Showed him what he was doing wrong, corrected it and on his way he went.

 

The saying "Always use the least aggressive method first" applies to anything in detailing and isn't exclusive to Adam's. With that said, you would always start with fine machine polish first on a new to you car you're polishing. You want to work in a small area like a 2x2 taped off area and get it to how you want. Once you know the proper steps you took to get it to YOUR perfect then you move on from there. Once you do that it's up to you on how you want to polish the car. I personally work on one panel at a time, that way if I can't finish I easily knew where I left off.

 

Machine super sealant is just extra protection. It takes I think over 10 hours to cure once you can apply anything over it. Is it necessary? That's up to you, but there is also Adam's quick sealant as well, which is applied by hand. Yes it can be applied after an IPA wipe down and I think it's because IPA evaporates quickly and that's why it's safe to do so.

 

An IPA wipedown is spray and wipe. Very simple and I like to wipe in one direction like waterless washes. (Not sure if this is correct, but it's how I've always done it)

 

Claying is super easy and super effective. It says on the actual clay bar container that it can last 8-10 cars. Of course depending on the condition of the cars you're doing.

 

Note: I did this all on my phone, so forgive me for any spelling errors or run on sentences . I'll try to proofread a little later.

 

Edit: Be careful of dust from the polish during an IPA wipedown. This can cause marring.

Edited May 5, 2013 by BKazzle

[Performance Auto Detailing]

I'm not new to polishing, but the first time I used the flex, I was fine with it. Also, I showed my dad how to use it and he was fine with it as well. Showed him what he was doing wrong, corrected it and on his way he went.

 

The saying "Always use the least aggressive method first" applies to anything in detailing and isn't exclusive to Adam's. With that said, you would always start with fine machine polish first on a new to you car you're polishing. You want to work in a small area like a 2x2 taped off area and get it to how you want. Once you know the proper steps you took to get it to YOUR perfect then you move on from there. Once you do that it's up to you on how you want to polish the car. I personally work on one panel at a time, that way if I can't finish I easily knew where I left off.

 

Machine super sealant is just extra protection. It takes I think over 10 hours to cure once you can apply anything over it. Is it necessary? That's up to you, but there is also Adam's quick sealant as well, which is applied by hand. Yes it can be applied after an IPA wipe down and I think it's because IPA evaporates quickly and that's why it's safe to do so.

 

An IPA wipedown is spray and wipe. Very simple and I like to wipe in one direction like waterless washes. (Not sure if this is correct, but it's how I've always done it)

 

Claying is super easy and super effective. It says on the actual clay bar container that it can last 8-10 cars. Of course depending on the condition of the cars you're doing.

 

Note: I did this all on my phone, so forgive me for any spelling errors or run on sentences . I'll try to proofread a little later.

 

Edit: Be careful of dust from the polish during an IPA wipedown. This can cause marring.

 

Really appreciate all the info. The Flex sounds like the machine to get from everything I read. If it cuts down on time it's worth the money for me as long as me being an amateur isn't a problem.

 

And great about the clay - For $27 I'd want it to last a while. Do you have to store clean and dirty clay separately? There are probably instructions on the clay itself I assume.

 

For areas that I can't reach with the machine pad, do I just hand polish?

[Fierce5]

Really appreciate all the info. The Flex sounds like the machine to get from everything I read. If it cuts down on time it's worth the money for me as long as me being an amateur isn't a problem.

 

And great about the clay - For $27 I'd want it to last a while. Do you have to store clean and dirty clay separately? There are probably instructions on the clay itself I assume.

 

For areas that I can't reach with the machine pad, do I just hand polish?

 

I find the Flex to be a no brainer really, I have a PC XP and I had a Flex and I sold it as I wasn't doing much detailing but now I realized I made mistake. The Flex is stronger machine and it cuts down on time, If you are trying to get a swirled/scratched up paint to near perfection I don't see how you can do it with the PC and finish in one day, especially if you're doing the interior too (full package). Go with the Flex and never sell it under no circumstance.

 

As for the tight area I would try the focus pads and if that doesn't work in some very tight areas, like behind the door knobs where you knuckles hit, I would try some Fine Machine Polish on an applicator and do it by hand, I have great results on a C300 I just detailed using this method.

 

Enjoy your Flex

[BKazzle]

You'll be fine with the flex. Take your time with it until you feel very comfortable and you'll be ready in no time.

 

I stand corrected; on the clay bar it says 10-15 cars. When I store the dirty clay, I fold it so there are no contaminated sides and throw it back in the container. I learned from here to spray lubrication in the container when storing it to keep it hydrated. Excellent idea!

 

For areas you can't reach with big pads you can do these things:

1. Don't touch it (YEAH RIGHT! Not a good one for us OCD people )

2. Focus pads (smaller pads for small areas)

3. Hand polish

[Performance Auto Detailing]

I find the Flex to be a no brainer really, I have a PC XP and I had a Flex and I sold it as I wasn't doing much detailing but now I realized I made mistake. The Flex is stronger machine and it cuts down on time, If you are trying to get a swirled/scratched up paint to near perfection I don't see how you can do it with the PC and finish in one day, especially if you're doing the interior too (full package). Go with the Flex and never sell it under no circumstance.

 

As for the tight area I would try the focus pads and if that doesn't work in some very tight areas, like behind the door knobs where you knuckles hit, I would try some Fine Machine Polish on an applicator and do it by hand, I have great results on a C300 I just detailed using this method.

 

Enjoy your Flex

 

Sounds like you've got me convinced!

 

You'll be fine with the flex. Take your time with it until you feel very comfortable and you'll be ready in no time.

 

I stand corrected; on the clay bar it says 10-15 cars. When I store the dirty clay, I fold it so there are no contaminated sides and throw it back in the container. I learned from here to spray lubrication in the container when storing it to keep it hydrated. Excellent idea!

 

For areas you can't reach with big pads you can do these things:

1. Don't touch it (YEAH RIGHT! Not a good one for us OCD people )

2. Focus pads (smaller pads for small areas)

3. Hand polish

 

Well that's good news then! Good idea with the keeping them hydrated. And yeah to say I have OCD is an understatement.. so I will definitely be doing something

[Antv20]

I haven't used a flex yet, but have used a PC. I am looking to ditch the PC and move to a Flex. PC tends to wear me out throughout the detail process. Plus my understanding is the Flex corrects paint faster.

[MrHot88]

The PC works fine for me, no plans as of now to buy the Flex, it's working for me just fine, so what's the point.

It may make the job faster but for most cars I can get it all done in one day.

 

Still love my PC after two years owning it.

 

Kevin

 

It's all presence yes but for a beginner the PC is the way to go IMO

[CMDChase]

Go with the Flex. It is not difficult and is nothing to be afraid of. And it's the better of the two. Period.

After doing a 2x2 test area, do the entire car with each step. I get about 3-4 uses out a clay bar. I don't save the used pieces, i just throw them away. IMO, it's not worth cross-contaminating another car with a used piece of clay just to say a couple of bucks. Keep watching the videos until you have them completely memorized. Then watch them some more. The first few times I fully detailed a car I would go back and forth from the video to the car with each step. It took forever to complete the job but was well worth it. And ask questions on or just read the forums. Everyone is extremely helpful and you will pick up tons of valuable information. Good luck!!

[gencoupe3dot8]

I have the following:

1) PC

2) Flex

3) Rotary

 

Which is "best"? Depends on the job at hand. I don't think there is that much difference in skill level needed between the PC and the Flex. The Flex WILL speed up your polish process (all else being equal). The rotary only gets used when I have hammered painted (for the most part). At the moment, the Flex will be the first polisher I reach for (for polishing).

 

HTH,

Mike

[ForceofWill]

The PC works fine for me, no plans as of now to buy the Flex, it's working for me just fine, so what's the point.

It may make the job faster but for most cars I can get it all done in one day.

 

Still love my PC after two years owning it.

 

Kevin

 

It's all presence yes but for a beginner the PC is the way to go IMO

 

You're giving the impression that you only use the PC here Kevin and it does everything perfect. You should probably mention you do all your cutting with your beloved rotary. If the only tool you have is a PC or a Flex the Flex wins no questions asked. Its better at everything and still very beginner friendly.

[MrHot88]

I never said the Flex wasn't any better than the PC, I said the PC is working fine for me.

What I mean by that is I never rush when detailing a my cars,I go at a smooth pace, if I run into a really bad car then I'll use the rotary and follow the second step and so on with my PC.

Not anyone can use a rotary, I'm lucky to know how to operate it, comes in handy, really speeds up after wet sanding , like the Civic I just did for a friend,the rotary was a must IMHO

My PC finished really well and didn't take that long.

Now, if I did this for a living I'm sure I'd look into a Flex just to see if it's faster than my rotary , you see then I'd be looking for speed because I'd be trying to make a living at detailing.

 

Both of my cars are taking care of, I just maintain them with my PC but the biggest plus is the products I use, Adam's.

 

I'd love to try one, I wish I knew someone who lived near me so that I could test the Flex.

Who knows, maybe I'd buy one right after trying it.

 

Hope this clarifies what I said on my earlier post:)

 

 

You're giving the impression that you only use the PC here Kevin and it does everything perfect. You should probably mention you do all your cutting with your beloved rotary. If the only tool you have is a PC or a Flex the Flex wins no questions asked. Its better at everything and still very beginner friendly.

Edited May 7, 2013 by MrHot88

[THE Mook]

Having a late model Mercedes...go with the Flex. The PC is simply under powered IMO to tackle ceramic clear coats.

 

I honestly only use the PC for the 4" bits now.

[Antv20]

Different story cutting with a PC. By the time I finish a car I am wore out. Definitely recommend the Flex since it should help with fatigue.

[Performance Auto Detailing]

Thanks everyone for all the help!

[gencoupe3dot8]

We haven't talked about different pads or polishes, or throws. Of course Adams only supports 1 kind of each, but there ARE alternatives out there.

 

Goggle SMAT and DAT. Adams polishes are DAT (thus far, anyway). Also google MF (Microfiber) disks (for DAs). A combination of MF disks and other polishes could make the PC cut "better".

 

Now add a third vector, throw. A new trend in detailing is go with large throws. Another DA polisher has a 21mm throw (versus the PCs 8mm). The theory is kinda complex, but boils down to the larger the throw the faster you can get the same results. Again you can further complicate this with MF disks and various polishes, but it is asserted that with the same basic pads and polishes that the work would be done significantly faster. Tests have been done between the 21mm unit and the Flex, with the TIME reduced by the 21mm unit. This is true even while the Flex uses forced rotation (think cross between rotary and da polisher) and the 21mm unit which is using the dual action oscillation (again, with larger throw).

 

All that said, if you are choosing between the Flex and the PC, go with the Flex.

 

Knowledge is power!

 

[m]

[GaryW]

My take on the whole deal is affordability versus amount of jobs. If you are just doing your own ride then nothing wrong with the PC. Does the job especially if you are not in a hurry. I have done both of my ride prior to getting the Flex. The PC did just fine. Now I will note that I agree that if I had used the Flex I would have cut down on time to do each one. But then again they are my own ride and time is not a concern. If I do just one or 2 panels a weekend of just the front half or just the Roof, Hood and trunk lid in a weekend that would be fine. Alot of money to spend just to do your one ride a year or so.

 

Now if you are doing this a side gig then go Flex and maybe learn some of the other tools like the PE-14 I keep reading about.

I think Roshan has used the Bigfoot alot and was telling me nice machine. If I was doing it as a side deal to make money I would use all I could.

 

Again Just my thoughts and mine alone. They are trade marked..

 

Detail on Big Daddy

Edited May 8, 2013 by GaryW

[Ralfy]

We haven't talked about different pads or polishes, or throws. Of course Adams only supports 1 kind of each, but there ARE alternatives out there.

 

Goggle SMAT and DAT. Adams polishes are DAT (thus far, anyway). Also google MF (Microfiber) disks (for DAs). A combination of MF disks and other polishes could make the PC cut "better".

 

Now add a third vector, throw. A new trend in detailing is go with large throws. Another DA polisher has a 21mm throw (versus the PCs 8mm). The theory is kinda complex, but boils down to the larger the throw the faster you can get the same results. Again you can further complicate this with MF disks and various polishes, but it is asserted that with the same basic pads and polishes that the work would be done significantly faster. Tests have been done between the 21mm unit and the Flex, with the TIME reduced by the 21mm unit. This is true even while the Flex uses forced rotation (think cross between rotary and da polisher) and the 21mm unit which is using the dual action oscillation (again, with larger throw).

 

All that said, if you are choosing between the Flex and the PC, go with the Flex.

 

Knowledge is power!

 

[m]

 

 

This. I have ventured into new compounds untill the new Adams heavyduty compounds are released. Also different pads. I have used different pads from another company and got way better results faster with those pads. Swirl and haze remover makes fora very good one step polish. But i love adams, just some clear coats call for far more aggressive compounds.

[MrHot88]

I agree, sometimes you just need a good compound on hard, bad finish.

SSHR is great for swirls but not for heavy cutting.

Adam himself said SSHR is not a compound , which is true.

 

On really bad finish I start with 3M Heavy Duty compound, great cutting power with using a rotary, then I'd follow up with my PC and SSHR and work myself down.

 

Kevin

 

 

 

 

 

This. I have ventured into new compounds untill the new Adams heavyduty compounds are released. Also different pads. I have used different pads from another company and got way better results faster with those pads. Swirl and haze remover makes fora very good one step polish. But i love adams, just some clear coats call for far more aggressive compounds.

[ECaulk]

I'm lucky enough to live near the Adams warehouse, so when I bought a polisher I got to test both with instruction from the one and only Mook with Adam lingering nearby (these guys are great). The PC was ok, had to use pretty good pressure to keep it from spinning. Then I tried the Flex, no extra pressure was required and it cleaned the panel up faster (it was on a black GM car). You have 2 cars to do go with the Flex, I was new to polishing as well and am glad I bought the flex. You literally have to try to damage the car with the flex (using it as a hammer), but keep in mind about plastic parts with either polisher, the Flex you have to worry about more heat build, and the PC you have to worry about the panel giving under the pressure.

[TGO]

I was in the same boat. I was worried about getting the Flex because of how "powerful" it was described as being. I was afraid of damaging my car with it. Finally, I bit the bullet and bought one and within a couple of minutes of using the machine I already had a good feel for it. I also periodically stopped and felt the panel I was working on and there really wasn't any heat on it from the Flex...which is the major concern with "burning" paint. 

 

IMO to do damage with the Flex, you'd really have to stand there for a long time in the same spot. Just keep it flat against the paint and keep it moving and you're good to go. And don't run the machine over an edge. Meaning, if you come to like a 90 degree angle...don't polish the point where the two sides meet...do one side, then the other. So if it's say the trunk...do the lid, then do the vertical side. Or a fender...do the top, then do the vertical part.