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Porter Cable Polisher Debate With My Dad

bertaman1000

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bertaman1000

bertaman1000

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Hello all, I have been in a debate with my dad on and off for about two weeks about the safety of the Porter Cable 7424XP. I initially argued that it's impossible to damage the paint with the Porter Cable because of its clutch, and its dual action, even the almighty Junkman says its practically impossible to damage the clear coat! Me being 18 and "knowing everything" I just knew I was right, and my dad who didn't know anything was wrong (he spent many years detailing for a Chevrolet dealership in his younger days).

 

The topic was brought up again tonight and his logic finally clicked to me. Essentially what he said was 'if you can take down the clear coat enough to remove swirls, you can take down the clear coat enough to cut through the clear coat.'

 

I want to know, what's y'alls thoughts on this, and how can Adam's make the claim that "With the Adam's Polishing Pad System, it's virtually impossible to do any paint damage," while remaining truthful? Thanks guys.

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Marylander

Marylander

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You are correct. The Adams's system doesn't remove any appreciable clear coat, it basically smooths out the hard edges of the tiny scractches that you see as swirls. With the edges softened there's significantly less light reflected fron the scratches so they in essence disappear.

 

I think somewhere here on the forum there's an old post that has an illustration of this concept; it might be worht searching around a little to see if you can find it -- or maybe if someone else recalls it they can post a link.

 

But really, there's no need to worry about damaging the clear coat. The PC doesn't build up any damaging heat, and the Adams correction products aren't aggressive enough to cut deep enough to cause damage. They are by design made to be safe for guys of our skill level and paint-correction intention. The PC paint correction process isn't nearly as quick as the rotary polishers a dealership may use, but the flip side is the safety of it all. :cheers:

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bertaman1000

bertaman1000

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This concept has never even crossed my mind. I ran it across him and he said that he could definitely see that as being plausible. It makes sense.

 

With that said, Adam himself (in a video I believe) said that you are not going to damage your paint with even the Flex. What's the story on this?

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Marylander

Marylander

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Hi again -

 

The first minute of this video explains briefly the difference between the pc and the flex, but the bottom line is that the rotation/movement of the flex just works at the fine scratches from more directions and gets the job done faster. With either machine, though, it's really the Adams products doing the cutting, and as with the PC, none of them are so aggressive that you need to worry about tearing down into the clear coat.

 

Polishing with the Flex 3401 Detailing Video

 

Most of us start/learn with the PC and then graduate to the flex; in fact just today I finally decided to get a flex after using a PC on my family's cars over the last 5 years. :2thumbs:

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07RS4

07RS4

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With that said, Adam himself (in a video I believe) said that you are not going to damage your paint with even the Flex. What's the story on this?

 

Rich covered the PC.

 

Flex....That would be, you are not going to "damage" the paint if you use the Flex and the polishes like the Adam's team recommends. But you have forced rotation, foam pad, 1500 RPM, abbrasive polishes. Sit on an edge to long or what have you, and that possiblity is always there that you could damage clear coat, especially with all the different paint systems out there. Don't get me wrong though, the Flex is definately a beast...a safe beast at that.

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bertaman1000

bertaman1000

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I'm really not trying to be a smart aleck here, I'm just trying to figure this out: If it would be very hard to damage the clear coat with the Flex, then why does the Junkman make such a big deal about it being in the wrong place if its in the hands of a novice?

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07RS4

07RS4

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I'm really not trying to be a smart aleck here, I'm just trying to figure this out: If it would be very hard to damage the clear coat with the Flex, then why does the Junkman make such a big deal about it being in the wrong place if its in the hands of a novice?

 

I don't believe I've ever watched Junkman's Flex vid, so I don't know. He's usually pretty descriptive about what he says so...you'd have to tell me:D

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THE Mook

THE Mook

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I'm really not trying to be a smart aleck here, I'm just trying to figure this out: If it would be very hard to damage the clear coat with the Flex, then why does the Junkman make such a big deal about it being in the wrong place if its in the hands of a novice?

 

Here's something.

 

Everyone that is on the Adam's Premium Car Care Team endorses the Flex as being a safe, and effective machine to use. Especially when you want faster and better results than the PC on dark paint. Common sense goes a long way with anything. Essentially you would have to polish your paint thousands of times before you are going to strike through the clear coat, with a DA Machine, and common sense.

The Flex is becoming the more popular machine in our lineup, and it's been that way for going on over a year now.

 

I can't speak for why someone who isn't on our team thinks it's dangerous in the hands of a novice. So is a stick of butter, if you don't have common sense I guess.

 

Mook:2thumbs:

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THE Mook

THE Mook

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It wasn't that long ago that the Adam's team would caution beginners towards the PC, over the Flex. That tide seems to be turning now, as you mentioned, Mook.

 

Who knows, in time maybe Adam's will move towards a rotary line....

 

If only we were playing with a certain "Cadillac" of RO polishers... :D

 

I honestly used to think (until I was able to log LOTS of hours on the Flex) that the PC WAS the way to start learning. NO. That's non-sensical to me now. Is that even a word? :lolsmack:

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Team Adam's

Team Adam's

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I'm really not trying to be a smart aleck here, I'm just trying to figure this out: If it would be very hard to damage the clear coat with the Flex, then why does the Junkman make such a big deal about it being in the wrong place if its in the hands of a novice?

 

To be perfectly honest if misused BOTH machines are capable of damaging paint, but the key to that statement is IF MISUSED. The same way that if you misuse anything (as mook so eloquently noted a stick of butter) you're not going to get the intended results.

 

A number of customers have heard me recount one of my favorite calls of all time where a car owner removed the paint from his door b/c he forgot to put the pad on his PC, essentially buffing with the 'hook' side of hook and loop velcro.

 

Does his situation make the PC unsafe for everyone? No. No more than a guy getting a DUI means its unsafe for you to drive sober.

 

In the end both machines do the same thing - they remove a very very very small (microscopic) amount of clear coat to essentially 'level' the paint back to a point where there are no (visible) imperfections. The difference comes in at how quickly they're capable of doing this... with the added speed and forced rotation of the Flex you can get the job done on average about 30% faster.

 

Its working the polishes more quickly, imparting the changes to the surface faster, meaning less work time, which in turn = faster results. Its not really removing MORE material, the same amount of material will have to be removed regardless of the machine you're using in order to correct an imperfection... if it takes 5 passes of the PC or 2 passes of the flex, ultimately the same amount of material was removed to get the job done... the flex just removed it faster.

 

I'll point back to analogy I've used on the forums before:

 

Lets say you're going to put a swimming pool in your backyard and you need to dig a hole thats 10ft deep at one end, and 3ft deep at the other.

 

At your disposal you have the following:

 

  • a hand trowel (hand polishing)
  • a half dozen shovels and buddies who work for beer (porter cable)
  • a small tractor (flex polisher)
  • a massive 70,000lbs excavator (rotary)
  • a case of dynamite (sandpaper)

 

Could you dig the 10ft deep side with a hand trowel? Sure... but it'd take forever.

 

Could you dig the shallow end of the pool with that excavator? Maybe, but it would be completely overkill and you risk digging too deep.

 

For the cost of a case of beer and pizzas you could have your buddies come use shovels to dig the hole and it'd get done in a reasonable amount of time. The shallow end would be easy, the deep end would be harder.

 

The small tractor is probably capable of doing the deep end and still light enough to dig that shallow end if you need to.

 

So the moral of this story is - every tool has its place... all these could "Dig your pool" but it comes down to how fast you want it done and if its overkill for the work.

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Team Adam's

Team Adam's

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It wasn't that long ago that the Adam's team would caution beginners towards the PC, over the Flex. That tide seems to be turning now, as you mentioned, Mook.

 

Who knows, in time maybe Adam's will move towards a rotary line....

 

Originally we didn't carry the Flex due to reliability issues. We don't want to extend a lifetime warranty on a tool if we're not confident in its ability to serve its owner FOR LIFE. When they started to address the brush and cord issues we were confident in offering the flex.

 

In 13 years of business many of our customers have 'grown up' with our business. They graduate from hand polishing to PC. From PC to Flex.

 

So who knows, maybe we will offer a rotary at some point. The one difference is that with rotary you can go from 0 to primer in very little time. The margins for error are VERY short so thats something we have to consider when offering a line thats designed to service primarily newcomers and hobbyists learning the process.

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gencoupe3dot8

gencoupe3dot8

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Originally we didn't carry the Flex due to reliability issues. We don't want to extend a lifetime warranty on a tool if we're not confident in its ability to serve its owner FOR LIFE. When they started to address the brush and cord issues we were confident in offering the flex.

 

In 13 years of business many of our customers have 'grown up' with our business. They graduate from hand polishing to PC. From PC to Flex.

 

So who knows, maybe we will offer a rotary at some point. The one difference is that with rotary you can go from 0 to primer in very little time. The margins for error are VERY short so thats something we have to consider when offering a line thats designed to service primarily newcomers and hobbyists learning the process.

 

Hear ya loud and clear Dylan... understand completely..

 

BTW, how has your process changed now that you have experienced real weather (smile) ....

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Team Adam's

Team Adam's

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I have a new found love for pay n' sprays with heated DI water... and I FOUND ONE!

 

Since Xmas the snow hasn't really melted off (highs rarely getting above 35* in the day) so side streets, and more particularly the few turns into my neighborhood are 'sloppy' for lack of a better term.

 

With 33" wide all terrains sticking a good couple inches beyond the fenders I get that slop flung up the sides of my truck daily. Luckily b/c its a non-plowed road theres no salt or nastiness in it.

 

Once a week or so I just blast the truck to knock it all off... the crazy part is that the QS is still so slick that I'd say its about 95% clean with nothing more than pressure washing. Jus wish I could do a full detail soon and not worry about it being wasted.

 

On another note - owning a 4wd truck in this kind of weather is FUN!!

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Chewy

Chewy

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I have a new found love for pay n' sprays with heated DI water... and I FOUND ONE!

 

Since Xmas the snow hasn't really melted off (highs rarely getting above 35* in the day) so side streets, and more particularly the few turns into my neighborhood are 'sloppy' for lack of a better term.

 

With 33" wide all terrains sticking a good couple inches beyond the fenders I get that slop flung up the sides of my truck daily. Luckily b/c its a non-plowed road theres no salt or nastiness in it.

 

Once a week or so I just blast the truck to knock it all off... the crazy part is that the QS is still so slick that I'd say its about 95% clean with nothing more than pressure washing. Jus wish I could do a full detail soon and not worry about it being wasted.

 

On another note - owning a 4wd truck in this kind of weather is FUN!!

 

Right? It's what the things were designed for!!! :2thumbs: I remember driving through drifts that would literally go over the hood and land in the bed of the truck. SO much fun!

 

I do the same as you Dylan. I spray off RIGHT after a storm and then whenever I see it needing it. I use straight water and NO soap. I will use the "wax" option, but only to get a good bead so the water rolls off when I drive it home. NOT for protection.

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The Boz

The Boz

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I can't speak for why someone who isn't on our team thinks it's dangerous in the hands of a novice. So is a stick of butter, if you don't have common sense I guess.

 

It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt by Mr Buttersworth..... Look what you've brought forth......

 

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